Fear: Trump in the White House(113)



Mueller was accompanied by Quarles and three other prosecutors.

Dowd came with Sekulow and another lawyer. It quickly became clear that they had different views about the purpose of the meeting.

“Well,” Mueller said, “I guess that’s it.”

“What are you talking about?” Dowd asked. “Where are the questions?”

“You know, I don’t know,” Mueller said, a poker player in mid-game.

“Jim said that’s what was going to happen here.”

“Well, you know, I don’t know,” Mueller said again. “Seems to me you’re not going to testify.”

“Under the circumstances, exactly right.”

“Well, you know,” Mueller said, “I could always get a grand jury subpoena.”

“You go right the fuck ahead and get it!” Dowd said, striking the table with his hand. “I can’t wait to file a fucking motion to quash. And I want to hear you tell the U.S. district judge what the crime is. And I want you to explain.”

Dowd said Mueller had all the evidence he could possibly need. “My motion to quash is going to have everything we’ve given you, including the testimony of 37 witnesses. Including the 1,400,000 documents with the highlights on the most intimate conversations of the president. I want you to tell that judge why you need a grand jury subpoena. Which by the way, has never been issued in the history of the country to any president. And by the way, there is no president, all the way back to Thomas Jefferson, who’s ever been so transparent.”

Dowd continued, “You want to go to war? Let’s go to war. And by the way, I will tell the president that you have now threatened us with a grand jury subpoena. ‘So Mr. President, if you don’t testify, I’m going to haul your ass in front of the public and we’re going to have a grand jury subpoena. We’re going to have a hearing.’ And by the way, Bob, none of this evidence is before the grand jury. So I want you to explain that to the federal judge, why none of this is before his or her grand jury yet.”

Dowd believed all the main evidence was in the interviews and documents. And only in rare cases had that sort of evidence been presented to the grand jury.

“John, it’s okay,” Mueller said, trying to calm Dowd.

“Bob, you threatened the president of the United States with a grand jury subpoena when he’s not a target. And barely a subject. He’s essentially a goddamn witness. And I’m going to tell the judge that. So he has no criminal liability as of March 5, 2018,” the date they were meeting. “Nothing. And I’m going to tell the judge I’m not going to let you play gotcha. I’m not going to have you start testing the recollection of this president over something that—there is no crime. And Bob, I’ve asked you. You’re the one that wanted to engage. Talk about reciprocity. You guys tell me where the collusion is. And don’t give me that chickenshit meeting in June,” Dowd said, referring to Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting with a Russian lawyer in Trump Tower.

“That’s a nothing. There’s no collusion. And the obstruction? It’s a joke. Obstruction’s a joke. Flynn? I mean, Yates and Comey didn’t think he lied. And by the way, he told—in the memo of the White House counsel, he told them the agents had said they closed his file. I mean, Flynn believed that he had no jeopardy. Yeah. None.”

Dowd continued. “I can’t wait to read your papers. Well, my papers are going first. And by the way, just give me the subpoena. I’ll take it.”

“John,” Mueller said, “I’m not trying to threaten you. I’m just thinking of the possibilities here.”

Dowd pivoted to the good-old-boy approach. “The other possibility is, give me the questions. We have a relationship of mutual trust. We’ve trusted you guys. You’ve trusted us. And we’ve never failed you. Bob, isn’t really the important thing that you get whatever the truth is? And you’ve got us working for you.”

Dowd decided to take an extraordinary step. “I have no secrets with you guys,” Dowd said. “I’m going to tell you about my conversation with the president of the United States on the subject of testimony.” He mentioned three of the questions he had taken Trump through up in the White House residence. On the third he had no clue. “He just made something up. That’s his nature.”

Dowd realized he had Mueller’s full attention.

“Jay,” he said to Sekulow, “you play the president. I’ll play Mueller. Okay?” They would role-play what Dowd had witnessed with the president. “Let’s talk about Comey.” Dowd asked about one of Trump’s Comey conversations. Sekulow’s answer was classic Trump—an answer spun out of thin air, with contradictions, made-up stuff, anger. A perfect performance. A perfect Trump.

“Gotcha! Gotcha, 1001!” Dowd said slamming the table, referring to the section of the U.S. Code that deals with false statements. “Gotcha, 1001!”

Dowd asked another simple question of Sekulow, still playing Trump.

“I don’t know,” Sekulow said. “I don’t know. I don’t know.”

“Jay,” Dowd said, “how many times did he say I don’t know when we talked to him?”

“Oh, a dozen, twenty.”

“Bob,” Dowd said to Mueller, “here’s my point. You’re asking me to sit next to a president who’ll get to the third question, screw it up and thereafter, because I’m going to counsel him, he just doesn’t know and he doesn’t remember. So he’s going to say I don’t remember 20 times. And I’m telling you, Bob, he doesn’t remember. And by the way, if you’d like I will get General Kelly in here to tell you he doesn’t remember. And the reason he doesn’t remember is very simple. One, these facts and these events are of little moment in his life.” Most had taken place early in his presidency.

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